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Sense Tribunal

Life and Deeds of Radovan Karadzic (2005) - 51 min

“In every environment, Radovan would show a different face” – says one of the persons interviewed in "Life and Deeds of Radovan Karadzic". This film presents some of the more prominent of Karadzic`s many faces: that of a psychiatrist, poet, politician, commander-in-chief, person charged with genocide and fugitive from international justice. There have been many twists and turns in his rise from a Montenegrin shepherd to a hero of a Serb myth. In the end, he soared to greatest heights only to plummet to the lowest depths. There is drama in this, there is tragedy and comedy. People who know him well or who thought they knew him well speak about him. Those are the people who cannot be disinterested, the people who have been deeply affected by the war for the Serbian state in Bosnia Karadzic led.

The film examines his rhetoric, arguments he used to manipulate the masses, his political mentors and the aftermath of his actions, described in the indictment issued against him by the ICTY. The strong and widespread myth about him is now mostly confined to the realm of epic folk songs. Although it is now history, the myth must be looked at, because it has yet to see its conclusion, in judicial, moral and political terms.

Documentary material and testimony of he knew and those who knew him well are important to all those who want to look into the life and works of Radovan Karadzic, regardless of their political beliefs. They are just as important to all those who have an interest in Bosnia then and now, the war in the former Yugoslavia and current political developments in the Western Balkans.

Transcript

THE PRESIDENT`S WORLDVIEW

RADOVAN KARADZIC
In vain we say we didn`t invent the conflict between Christianity and Islam. This conflict here has lasted for 500 years. There are conflicts among Arabs in Lebanon: same people but different religions. Maronites and Muslims have waged war for years. The same kind of war happened in Cyprus, Nagorny Karabakh and throughout India. The Hindus aren’t Christians, yet Islam is so intolerant, especially where you have fundamentalism. There is no peace there but for Muslims; and not for them either, if they don`t accept fundamentalism.


THE HOME

JEVREM BRKOVIC
His personality is the result of a weird Montenegrin context. You`d have snow for five, six months and the only literature was folk music sung with gusle - no TV, no radio. Gusle music is a kind of melodramatic epic, myth-building, which destroys the modern human being. He is a typical guslar -yeti, a snowman from Durmitor Mountain, who lived on gusle and bread as a kid.

VILLAGER
There are many Karadzic’s here. Which gentlemen do you need?

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
Radovan, man.

VILLAGER
Radovan. We won’t tell you because we don’t show their property without family approval. It`s not that we’re afraid; we’ve had it up to here with reporters and the lies they write. Not all reporters, only those who come to make programmes or write about Radovan. They`re all bastards. You’re all here on a mission. You’ve already written your story - you just want to add some pictures of the area.

Yes, we`re all Karadzic`s here. No other family lived here. Radovan was born in this village.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
Is this Luka?

VILLAGER
Doesn`t matter. No, man. I know who you are now. You don`t have to say anything else. You’ve cheated this man. This is not Luka. Luka is young.

ZIJO
What`s his name?

VILLAGER
Vladimir. I`m telling you this now, but I don’t want no cameras, because I know you`ll abuse it and there`s no chance then.

ZIJO
Well, how are we going to abuse this?

VILLAGER
I don’t need to tell you how to abuse it. You`ll cut and add. You`ll do what you want.

Radovan has no home. Only the site of his house remains. But I won`t show it to you, not for all Bosnia and Serbia.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
I see Radovan Karadzic. He had a huge… I`ve never seen a cake this big, such a huge plate. A huge piece of cake. He probably never had any cakes when he was a kid except the Montenegrin patispanj. That`s not a cake, only Montenegrins call that a dessert – it actually means `Spanish bread`.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This is the house where Radovan Karadzic was born and where he lived for a good part of his life.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
When he graduated from secondary medical school, the Karadzic family was reckoning his future. Since he was very good in school, they wanted him to go to university in Belgrade. After they calculated everything, they ended up 100 dinars short for a train ticket to Belgrade. They only had enough to send him to Sarajevo, so they had to relinquish their dreams of Belgrade. Fate – and a shortfall of 100 dinars – had sent him to Sarajevo. This was fatal for him, for Bosnia, for the Serb people in Bosnia and for the Muslims in Bosnia. Destiny was changed by one train ticket.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This is the cemetery in the Petnica village. The Karadzic family is buried here. As you can see, there`s an interesting cave up on the hill. The villagers in Petnica don`t like talking about Karadzic and about this cave.


A PUNCH BETWEEN THE HORNS

ELVIRA VITLAR
There were all kinds of patients. Some were psychotic, some depressive, etc. One of the patients was very aggressive. When Karadzic passed by this group of patients, the lad got upset and Radovan said, "Punch him between the horns." The lad jumped up, pulled a knife, started chasing Karadzic around, and wanted to kill him, to slit his throat. Karadzic managed to get down the stairs and lock himself into his office. I grabbed the patient`s hands from the back. He still held the knife. When I knocked on Karadzic`s door, he asked who it was. He was afraid to open it. When I said it was me, that the patients were gone, he unlocked the door and was no longer afraid.

DR. ISMET CERIC
At the morning meeting, I said, "I hear there was an incident in the ward. Radovan, please do something about it, I can’t have Elvira on hand every day to defend you against the violent patients.”

MARKO VESOVIC
Once, one of his commanders told him, "Serbs don’t want to take up arms." And Karadzic replies, "Well, shoot the fuckers." I`ll never forget it. This was the pussy who was humiliated by his own wife in front of his friends, when she was sticking her stiletto heel into his foot. How did this pussy suddenly turn into a man who says, "Shoot them"? I was amazed to see this wobbling jelly of a man turn into a butcher.


THE WRITER

JEVREM BRKOVIC
I met Radovan Karadzic as a med student in Sarajevo. He secretly wrote poetry. I didn’t know about him. A tall lad, big, with unruly hair, he approached me and said, "I`m Radovan Karadzic, I`m a Montenegrin, I`d like to speak with you." I went to the Hotel Evropa and he carried my suitcase. When we got there, he immediately took a notebook of verse from his back pocket. There were no major poetic surprises, no gripping metaphors, but skill and some emotion were there. He graduated from medical school and developed into an interesting personality in the Sarajevo milieu.

MARKO VESOVIC
There was a group of people seriously involved in literature, with degrees, who thought about it - first class intellectuals. Karadzic joined that group. He sat with us. He didn’t even graduate from gymnasium, which was very good at the time. Karadzic graduated from medical school and didn’t have any firsthand knowledge of literature. Karadzic would rather talk about his own poetic grandeur than actually do something. He was lazy. For instance, he never published a single book between 1974 and 1989-90.

MIROSLAV TOHOLJ
This is Radovan Karadzic`s first prose work. A novel, what is considered as a graduation into literature. It`s every poet`s dream. It`s a brilliant book. We also published a light comedy, Situation in 2002. That was the first time the author made his voice heard, in a literary or any other way, since his disappearance.

MARKO VESOVIC
When I read that, I thought, Karadzic has written this to validate all my claims about him as a writer. I remember such texts from my childhood performed in youth halls in Montenegro. No artistic value there. Pure overt political agenda, political text. Put aside the fact that he has no skill as a playwright, but he should at least know how to write a text. It must have some literary value.

MIROSLAV TOHOLJ
Karadzic received the Ducic Award, the Copic Award for the children`s book, the Risto Ratkovic Award in Bijelo Polje for his poetry...

MARKO VESOVIC
What I remember about his awards is what somebody from Bjelo Polje told me: When Karadzic went there to collect the Ratkovic Award, the Culture Hall and was surrounded by armoured personnel carriers.

MIROSLAV TOHOLJ
...and the Mikhail Sholokhov Award, a Russian award seldom given to foreign writers, awarded for the whole literary opus.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
I`m going for an event at the Russian Writers` Association, to receive an award and probably to sign a publishing contract. Then I will surely have some meetings in the Russian Duma.

MARKO VESOVIC
I really don`t know who could give him the Sholokhov Award, when I think of all those wonderful Serb poets. To give the Sholokhov Award to Karadzic is a crying shame, it`s spitting on the Serb culture, man.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
All in all, a little bit of culture and a little bit of politics.

MIROSLAV TOHOLJ
The novel`s author suggests that the chaos in the Balkans started at the time in which the story is situated.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
In the meantime, Radovan became a businessman. He started building a house in Pale and did some big-time embezzling, stealing cement and iron for the house, and money. In prison, he met this guy with bear-like eyebrows ... the one that`s on trial in The Hague ... Momcilo Krajisnik. They were arrested and sentenced to a year or two for embezzling funds.

MIROSLAV TOHOLJ
"They wanted me to work for the Yugoslav Secret Police while I was in America. I refused and now I`m being punished," Karadzic said to the editor of the novel when he got out of jail.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
The important thing is that he was transformed from lyrical poet, a psychiatrist, a man who cared about his Montenegrin ethnic background, who even built an ethnic mythology on the Montenegrin physique, into the greatest villain ever born in Montenegro, in the Balkans, among all the peoples in the Balkans.


SORROWS OF YOUNG RADOVAN

MARKO VESOVIC
There is a great verse we all remember: "I cured lesbians of their wonderful delusion." The verse reminds one of Brana Petrovic, who is one of the best Serb poets. The verse is great because of the "wonderful delusion". He cures lesbians and their delusion is wonderful. Once, as I was flipping through the book of his poetry - the verse was not there! The best verse, worth as much as his entire first book, was not there! Then I realised what happened. This was about a relationship he had before he got married. When he got married, he deleted that verse. Let me repeat, "I cured lesbians…" – a typical Montenegrin from Durmitor Mountain with typical Montenegrin delusions of grandeur. He`s really endowed – he can do anything! Let`s leave aside all those normal women he seduces, that`s nothing compared to the fact that he can persuade a lesbian to give up her “wonderful delusion.”


HEALER OF SOULS

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This is the building of the psychiatric hospital Dr. Nedjo Zec at the Kosevo Clinical Centre. Until the war Radovan Karadzic worked here as a psychiatrist.

DR ISMET CERIC
The patients complained to me. A patient would say, I`ve been here a month and nobody spoke to me. I`d ask, "Who`s your doctor" and they`d say, "I don`t know." We had logs showing who treated the patients, and I`d see those were Radovan`s patients. I`d warn him again. I`d call the patient in, and Radovan would tell him, "I did speak to you, you just don’t remember." You can’t treat patients like that. He often overlooked his patients.

ELVIRA VITLAR
Sometimes he was really unpleasant with his patients. He simply had no understanding for the moments when they were aggressive and agitated.

ISMET CERIC
The problem was Radovan`s lack of patience. You can’t be a psychotherapist with a psychoanalytical bent if you have no patience. It`s a long-term process. He`d start giving interpretations to the patients at the first or second session and the group would fall apart. Then the psychologist in charge would come to me and say, "Chief, Radovan`s causing big trouble." I asked Karadzic what was happening. He says, "Chief, they can handle tension." Please, I don’t want them to handle the tension. If you interpret their family relationships, relations with their mothers, etc., this may result in suicide.

DR ZORAN STANKOVIC
It`s weird when doctors enter politics. No real expert would ever enter politics or promote a certain policy. Unfortunately, that is not the case in this region.

DR ISMET CERIC
At that time, the books written by Vuk Draskovic were very relevant. I read all those books. He said that Vuk Draskovic was a schizophrenic and a bad writer. I said, “Radovan, why do you say that? What makes him a schizophrenic and a bad writer? Have you read those books?” Then I learned he had never read those books, yet had his opinions about them.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
Across the road from Dr. Radovan Karadzic`s office there is a cemetery where the victims of the war are buried. Before the war this was a small soccer field.


THE FLIGHT OF THE BUMBLEBEE

DANIJEL PIRIC
Radovan Karadzic was referred here by the Clinical Centre, I think Ceric, the director, referred him. He was a young doctor.

PREDRAG PASIC
One of the psycho-training sessions was held in a dark room, with a tape deck. We laid on the floor and he explained to us about the bumblebees and their flight, and our imagination, how we should, by listening to a piece of music, imagine the bumblebee flying from one flower to another. One person slept, another snored, a third kept farting, someone else cursed the bumblebee. We really found this bumblebee funny.

From today`s perspective, it’s strange, this huge contrast between that and what Radovan later became.

DANIJEL PIRIC
My family and I shared the fate of other citizens of Sarajevo during those four years. My wife and I wondered about this a lot, how is it possible that a man who supported the spiritual growth of young people could order artillery to fire on us from the hills, killing civilians, killing children. I often asked myself that.


A FOX WITH A THOUSAND FACES

DR ISMET CERIC
He did have many psychosomatic problems. He had depressive phases with a lot of neurotic symptoms, especially in spring. He would undergo various lab tests, getting all sorts of results.

MARKO VESOVIC
Ceric did everything for him. He really owed him. Ceric liked him; he treated him as someone special. Moreover, Ceric is a genuine scientist and an excellent psychiatrist. Karadzic would say, "I`m one of the two best psychiatrists in BH". He didn’t talk to us about his poetry, because I`d tell him, “shut your mouth, you`re a laughing stock.” On the other hand, he`d tell psychiatrists he`s one of the three best Serb poets. Not just in Bosnia, but in the entire Serb literature.

ISMET CERIC
Radovan did not rise above average in Sarajevo. He never rose above average in the Clinical Centre. He was no different from his colleagues on the ward at the time when I was his boss, when he completed his residency there.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
He had something to make up for the lack of talent. He was a good communicator and a psychiatrist to boot. Poets and writers always need a psychiatrist and think they can help them in any situation.

DR ISMET CERIC
He was always neurotic, he bit his nails, he bit them till they bled, which for a psychotherapist was not really … When you see a mess of papers on a man`s desk, this tells you about the chaos in his soul.

MARKO VESOVIC
When I superimpose Karadzic on the people I know from Montenegro, I have the right to say: there`s this Montenegrin delusion of grandeur. They can do anything: “There`s nothing I can`t do.”

JEVREM BRKOVIC
Then he says, which is also interesting, that Montenegrins are a special sort of people, not like any other. They don’t resemble their neighbours; they have the longest femurs in Europe.

DR ISMET CERIC
I found that funny. Every time he told me he had written a great poem or boasted about results in treating a patient, I kept thinking that he was saying those things tongue-in-cheek, that he didn’t believe it himself. Yet he apparently did.

MARKO VESOVIC
Whatever he did was great.

DR ISMET CERIC
Radovan obviously had a different face for every environment. When I was to employ him again after he was in prison, about a hundred people intervened on his behalf: from the local Communist Party boss, to the chairman of the Science and Culture Secretariat, the General Manager of the TV, Catholic and Muslim clerics...

JEVREM BRKOVIC
Then they discovered he`d been working for the Secret Police since 1968. They had his family files, incest and other dirt, and the Secret Police had no problem recruiting him. He worked for them, but the writers learned about it soon enough.

ISMET CERIC
When the war ended, the story circulated on the ward that everybody`s back but Radovan, but he could walk in any day and say, `What’s done is done, let bygones be bygones, let`s go on.’" And that`s him, you know.


KILLING A CITY

Come down to the towns
Let`s kill the bastards
Oh, Wolfdream, oh happy day,
Oh what a beautiful name you got.

The world awaits you, all obedient,
Oh you tired horseman
Wolfdream, the walking dead,
Oh what a beautiful name you got.

MARKO VESOVIC
He fears the prophet in him. What did he prophesise? That he would destroy the city. What kind of a prophecy is that? If he had prophesised someone else would do that, it would have been a prophecy. He merely articulated some emotions he hid inside him. I don’t know why he hated the city. Is it the hillbilly attitude towards the city? It`s a mystery to me why he hated the town that had given him everything. That`s something I can`t dig. He showed in the war that he really hated it.

ISMET CERIC
He used to come visit us. He took my children to soccer matches. He was on good terms with my mother and wished her all the best on every holiday. Even after the start of the war he called my mother to wish her a happy Eid al Fitr. His mother, father, brother, visited us. We never noticed anything, and we have inherent sensors to pick up such signals.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
The Jewish cemetery in Sarajevo. The war did not leave even the dead undisturbed. This atmosphere. The ruined graves invoke Karadzic`s morbid poems.

DR ISMET CERIC
Radovan really knew how to manipulate the fear. He said, scores of Green Berets are moving towards neighbourhoods where Serbs live. There were no such neighborhoods, ever. That there will be the Night of St. Bartholomew for Serbs. It sounds stupid to all of us. But it had terrible consequences. Of course, he had invented all that.

MARKO VESOVIC
When I watched him say things on TV, with such convictions, I though, if I was not in Sarajevo, I`d say this is God`s truth. I`ve been fascinated by his ability to convince people that a bald-faced lie is in fact God`s truth. Man, there was total carnage here, and he`s saying, "Serbs in Bosnia face the replay of 1941." He argued the point in such a way that you start doubting things, "Well, maybe I`m imagining that the shells are falling all over the place!"

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This used to be a hotel and where one of the headquarters for the siege of Sarajevo was located. Karadzic often visited positions around Sarajevo, encouraging the troops to fight on.

DR ISMET CERIC
Radovan looked at Sarajevo through the binoculars there with some foreign reporters. They asked him, how long would it take you to capture the city? He looks down, looks at the map and says, 48 hours.

REPORTER
You could take city tomorrow. Couldn`t you?

RADOVAN KARADZIC
Any time. We could take it any time.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This is where Radovan Karadzic told the foreign reporters that all this was Serb land.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
When Karadzic was personally in charge of the siege of Sarajevo, he turned it into a performance. He`d bring in Momo Kapor and other writers from Belgrade, who continue to be his fans and who are just as responsible as he is. When Karadzic held Sarajevo under siege for so many months, he really got into the act of a great commander, saying he could enter Sarajevo but he didn’t know what to do with the Muslims since he could not kill them all.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
This is one of the most dangerous positions, a sniper`s emplacement, from where the citizens of Sarajevo were targeted. You can see what we used to call “Snipers` Alley.”

JEVREM BRKOVIC
Arsonists have set Sarajevo on fire,
the skies have gone aflame,
the clocks have stopped,
the hours are ones of Hell.

Nights make the days bleed,
dawns break soaked in blood,
what are you doing, bloodthirsty Radovan,
where shall your soul go, Karadzic?


COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF

Officer: Mr. President, the Guard of Honour of the Republika Srpska Army is ready for inspection.

DR ISMET CERIC
This was all pure theatre. This man had no knowledge whatsoever. There is this thing called military tactics, its` taught in school. We who attended those schools know how it`s done. He abused that too.

ZELJKO RAZNATOVIC ARKAN
The battalion of the Serbian Volunteers` Guard is ready for your inspection.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
And this is for you, Guard Commander.

ZELJKO RAZNATOVIC ARKAN
Thank you, Mr. President.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
Thank you for your hospitality here. This is not the end; I hope it’s just the beginning.

ZELJKO RAZNATOVIC ARKAN
Thank you very much, Mr. President.

Would you like to say a few words to the guards?

MARKO VESOVIC
When he applies his criteria on truth and lies to Bosnia, you get bloodshed; you get something that makes your flesh creep. He`s been at war with the truth all his life. As far as it concerns his private life, you feel sorry for him. But when he transfers his criteria to a sphere where he decides the fate of thousands of people, then it becomes terrifying.


RADOVAN KARADZIC
If necessary, we`ll declare the state of war in the entire Republic, gather all the forces and play the endgame, because the Muslims obviously don’t consider a political solution. They want only a military solution. If that`s the case, we`ll have to defeat them.
RADOVAN KARADZIC
When did you see the Turks last? There haven`t been any here for a long time? Just across the gun sights, yeah? They don’t dare come here.

I often thought that someone in the world actually wants the Serbs and Croats to destroy the Muslims, so that there will be no Muslim state in Europe.

MARKO VESOVIC
He has the rhetorical force he brought along from Montenegro. He had the power to convince, to argue, to convince people that what we all know as lies, in fact constitutes the truth.


THE MAPS

RADOVAN KARADZIC
Lord Owen will not discuss the structure of the maps; he merely recommends various arrangements regarding the right of passage. Knowing that the civil war in BH has gone on for at least 70, 80 years, and that we are surrounded by enemies, this solution for the Serb areas that are in fact like Nagorny-Karabakh, is unacceptable. This would lead to new fighting, conflicts and tension.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
The maps as a whole are unacceptable. But they are not to be rejected out of hand. It`s easy to reject them summarily, but we must see whether it’s better vis-ŕ-vis the international community to say, “30% is unacceptable, or 70% is acceptable.” The end result is the same: We do not accept the maps.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
We are now enemies with Croats and Muslims. This is the result of the age-old enmity between Serbs and Muslims, although the long Turkish occupation had in fact turned some Serbs into Muslims. But religion was obviously very important here and our Serbs who converted to the Turkish faith are now our enemies.


THE MENTORS

PRIEST
Let me wish you all the best, to you, your associates and everyone else in Republika Srpska on your patron saint`s feast.

KARADZIC
We really achieved a lot militarily. We have secured a large state territory. Politically, we have achieved world-recognition of our right to a state. The right to sovereignty and to union has been broached. By resorting to diplomacy, we achieved this without major sacrifice of territory.

ZELJKO KOPANJA
We Serbs from Republika Srpska and BH did not elect Radovan Karadzic, that`s for sure. It’s no secret that he was the choice of Dobrica Cosic and his literary circle.

JEVREM BRKOVIC
Some people think he could stand-up to Milosevic, but I don’t think this was the case. He was Milosevic`s pawn. When he rose to power, Milosevic acted through his Secret Police, because he inherited all the files of the Secret Police…

ZELJKO KOPANJA
Karadzic`s main advisors at the time were Brana Crncevic, Rajko Petrov Nogo, Kosta Cavoski, to name but a few. These people used to come here with their trunks empty, said what they had to say, mostly advising that the war should continue, and returned to Belgrade with their trunks full of goodies and their pockets full of money.

LJILJANA BULATOVIC
I learned in the end that Dobrica Cosic played the decisive role. It was a telephone conversation of about 40, 50 minutes, with Dobrica explaining to him why he had to take up that task.


INTERCEPTED TELEPHONE CONVERSATION BETWEEN DOBRICA COSIC AND RADOVAN KARADZIC

Dobrica Cosic: The Hague is Munich.

Radovan Karadzic: Yes, yes.

DC: It’s a new Munich, of another era, not everything is the same, but history has its determinants that do not end the way it seems to us.

RK: On the old continent everything is old. This is all a stereotype. Everything is repeated.

DC: It’s history at work here. There is a new theory in philosophy, the end of history, some idiots started spreading that…

RK: No way...

DC: Yet history is at work, in full swing.

RK: No way...

DC: Disguised

RK: European nationalism has yet to flourish. They think that era of nationalism is gone. No way… Slovenes will disappear because of various European nationalisms.

DC: Whole nations will disappear, whole states…

RK: Will disappear, become mere appendages.

DC: Absolutely.

RK: Havel has destroyed Czechoslovakia.

DC: Yes, this colleague of ours is such a fool. He`s small-fry, man.

RK: He`s small-fry, a midget. You see this Central European philosophy…

DC: Nothing…

RK: There`s no juice here. No foundation.

DC: It`s not accidental. Look at their two most prominent authors.

RK: Kundera.

DC: No, no, no.

RK: Who then.

DC: Svejk and Kafka.

RK: Yes, yes…

DC: One mocks history...

RK: … and the other one complains all the time.

DC: He`s ending…

RK: Yes.

DC: Ending history.

RK: Yes, yes.

DC: And human endeavour.

RK: Yes, yes.

DC: This eroticism, that’s the point of Kundera and that whole gang.

RK: Right, right.

DC: When you look at history and arts, Central Europe has no original achievement.

RK: It can’t produce a myth.

DC: It has nothing but Catholicism.

RK: Nothing… and even their Catholicism is dirty, they keep complaining. I think there`s nothing more pathetic than a Slavic people of Catholic faith.

DC: Yes, that`s really…

RK: At odds with itself.

LJILJANA BULATOVIC
At one point he placed his trust in Slobodan Milosevic as the leader of the Serb people, but he soon realised Slobodan was a different kind of politician, one who did not serve Serb interests in BH. Radovan`s late mother actually told me, ”I wish Slobodan had not interposed himself at the helm of the Serbs in BH. Things would have been better had Radovan negotiated instead of Slobodan."


TESTIMONY UNDER OATH

SMILJA AVRAMOV
When you read his speeches, you see he`s highly intellectual. Mr. Karadzic enjoyed a lot of respect, not only as a great neuropsychiatrist, who published enormous works in that field, but as a man with broad education, of literature, a poet, a scientist.

MILAN TRBOJEVIC
Karadzic appeared totally disorganised. He never took notes, never filed documents, never had any system. On the outside, Karadzic had charisma, charm, and knew how to manipulate the masses.

LORD DAVID OWEN
At one stage Karadzic I think saw himself as a king of Serbs.

KOSTA BULATOVIC
He saved what could be saved. Some people died. That`s war. Karadzic did what he could to protect his people. As for those he couldn’t protect – well, that`s fate.

STJEPAN KLJUIC
Mr. Karadzic often acted childishly, insolently, and I had to respond. He said, "There will be no BH, we`ll kill you," and I sad, "There will be BH, even if it`s the size of Monaco." That`s the way I had to speak to Karadzic.


LIFE`S WORK

REPORTER
And now joining us from Belgrade is Dr. Radovan Karadzic, the leader of the Bosnian Serbs who`s been watching our report in Belgrade. Dr. Karadzic, there is still more evidence that Serbs are raping Bosnian women.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
This is something that is framed and staged by Muslim forces. I know that there was some rapes on Serbian side, too. But never with knowledge of army officers.

REPORTER
This is so widespread. It is detailed by EC and Amnesty International. We have detailed it. I have list here of 43 camps, places where women are being raped.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
That is out of question that those campuses exist at all. We have some open refugee campuses. But in prison for war prisoners there was no civilian let alone women.

REPORTER
We have seen them. You have seen them on the tape. They are ordinary Bosnian women.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
But they have not been in any prison. They have been in refugee campuses.

REPORTER
The difference between camp or detention or whatever...there are people who stay there in the camps because they are frightened to go out. That is the same in the sense as being prison.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
But they are not detained by force. They are detained by events and there may be some abuses and there may be some cases that should be investigated and punished but it is out of question to say that it was sort of system or sort of strategy.

REPORTER
But you see, the outgoing Secretary of State in US, Lawrence Eagleburger, who is going to stay in the State Department for the next 6 weeks at least, who speaks fluent Serbo-Croatian, he testifies that things are so bad that you personally are going to have to answer as a war criminal at the end of this.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
This is quite private opinion by Mr. Eagleburger who also should be tried for what happened to Yugoslavia, because he is responsible for what happened to Yugoslavia, that all of my activities are quite public and if you knew our generals how they are very strong about morality, you will never say it was with knowledge of the army officers or civilian authorities.

REPORTER
Dr. Karadzic, thank you for joining us.

MARK HARMON
Food rations and hygienic condition in the camps were grossly inadequate. You may recall the film that we presented as exhibit showing the emaciated and malnourished detainees about whom Dr. Karadzic said, and I quote, "They were a few very skinny guys who will never look better. When I was 30, I too looked like them". Torture and murder were common and women as well as young girls in them were frequently raped and subjected to repeated and perverse forms of sexual assault. In short, the acts committed in these camps were genocidal and were intended to destroy in whole or in part, the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat detainees being held in them.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
You put it well when you said Srebrenica was breaking news. It should be breaking news as an example of the superiority of Serb arms and military and an example of Serb gallantry.

A WOMAN BY THE STREAM
... My poor mother is wounded. Her arm is broken, and hasn`t healed. My husband has been captured, probably killed. What can I do? I have four children.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
No civilian has been harmed since the fighting ended, there`s law and order. Our troops are helping to establish our civilian authorities there because Serbs had been expelled from Srebrenica when the war began, and now they are returning. There are municipal assemblies that were elected earlier. And now, as things are settling down, the [Muslim] refugees want to leave. We signed an agreement guaranteeing every person the right to choose their residence. Although we believe they don’t have to leave, one thing is clear: this will never be a terrorist stronghold again. Only the police can carry arms there. If they want to accept the authority of Republika Srpska, to be its citizens, they need not go. However, a huge majority wants to leave.

DR. ZORAN STANKOVIC
In my expert testimony before the ICTY, which was uncontested, I said that among the 2,083 remains, about 326 persons had their hands or legs tied and had gunshot wounds. This is a sure sign of execution. If a single man is killed, that`s a great evil, let alone so many.


THE MYTH

MILJAN MILJANIC
These songs about Radovan Karadzic as a historic figure have a certain weight, because Radovan Karadzic has a certain weight. He led the Serbs from across the Drina river in a decisive moment and they created Republika Srpska.

Oh Radovan, Serbdom is calling you
Same as it called throughout the ages
When there was lots of pain and suffering
Upon Its best knights, best among them all.

ZELJKO KOPANJA
Persistent efforts by some circles of Belgrade’s intellectual elite to keep the Mladic and Karadzic myth alive are failing here. People here will no longer be so gullible and susceptible to myths.


THE BEGINNING OF THE END

KARADZIC
NATO has already inflicted on us terrible damage and casualties, including on civilians. We have re-opened Sarajevo and are ready to re-open the airport. We are not laying siege to Sarajevo. We are simply protecting Serb suburbs around Sarajevo. So please stop it, because you have enough reason to stop it.

RADOVAN KARADZIC
I have my army and my guard who would protect me. But let me ask, “Why should they arrest me?” Dayton has legalised and legitimised our fight for freedom and our own state, or let’s say entity. I am the legitimate and legal president of the entity.


NOBODY HOME

DR ISMET CERIC
I think life in those hiding places must be very miserable for this man, who is a hero to some people. I think it`s a terrible and his life is not worth a dime.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
We are at Pale, in Republika Srpska, in BH. Behind us there is a church. In one of its many failed attempts to arrest Karadzic, SFOR broke into the house behind us. This house belongs to the parish priest.

PRIEST
Last night I was awakened by a loud explosion at the new parish house, which was then broken into from several sides.

ZIJO JUSUFOVIC
Sometime in early 1993, Karadzic moved into this house and lived here until 1996, when he disappeared without a trace.

HOUSEKEEPER AT PALE
At 3:20 I heard a ruckus. I had heard a helicopter earlier, but paid it no mind. I heard a loud noise and went to the window. Two soldiers approached. One shouted at me to get down there, and I had to get out through the exit upstairs. And I went here. This is the gate. Let me…

LJILJANA KARADZIC
Their actions can`t make Radovan change his mind, he will not change his mind, and those things won’t scare us.

MARKO VESOVIC
I wouldn’t like to be in his shoes when I think of his imagination working overtime, as he awaits bad things to happen. I wouldn`t like to be in his shoes wherever he`s hiding, constructing things in his minds as he awaits arrest. I think his life is hell. Another thing: everyone used to come to see him in Pale, and now suddenly he`s a nobody. He`s a burden to those in Republika Srpska too. If they could extradite him and remain in power, they would do so. It’s hard to be a nobody when once you were a major player in the field of world history.


SENSE Production, 2005

Produced and Written by
Mirko Klarin

Production Manager
Violeta Willemsen-Curcic

Edited by
Aleksandar Stenojevic

Directed by
Lazar Stojanovic


SPEAKERS:

Jevrem Brkovic
Poet

Marko Vesovic
Author

dr Ismet Ceric
Psychiatrist

Miroslav Toholj
Author

Elvira Vitlar
Head Nurse

dr Zoran Stankovic
Forensic pathologist

Danijel Piric
Soccer Coach

Predrag Pasic
Soccer Player

Zijo Jusufovic
“Karadzic Tour” guide

Ljiljana Bulatovic
Writer

dr Smilja Avramov
Professor of Law

Milan Trbojevic
Attorney at Law

Lord David Owen
Former EU Mediator for Ex-Yu

Kosta Bulatovic
Leader of Kosovo Serbs

Stjepan Kljujic
Politician

Mark Harmon
ICTY Prosecutor

Cases

Schedule

The reports are delivered to Sense-Tribunal Service subscribers immediately after they are posted on the website. The full text of the reports will be available on the website the following day from 12:00 pm (noon).